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  #1  
12-07-2011, 09:29 AM
difsnr11
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hey my impulsive mind recently got me to sign up for the lovesystems bootcamp. its only been a day and I was wondering if there was any way for me to cancel the payment. It hasn't shown up on my credit card bill yet and I am already regretting it.

If not, any ideas on the best way for me to take advantage of the money back guarentee they have? Looking for serious advice here, this may be the dumbest thing I have ever done and instantly felt disgusted once I hung up the phone.







  #2  
12-07-2011, 12:04 PM
improvingame
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Just don't bitch out on asking for a refund (assuming you can...I don't know their terms).

I know with RSD for example that if a student is unsatified with the bootcamp, he will be too pussy to ask for a refund at the end. And, I think the condition with RSD is that you must attend the entire course of the bootcamp and you must ask at the end of the bootcamp, you can't wait and call later.

But, by the end of the bootcamp, the student probably feels less/inferior to the instructor and is too scared to bring it up (i.e intimidated).

  #3  
12-07-2011, 12:24 PM
PUA Comic
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I got banned again from a forum. Shit, why dont people realize that I have feelings deep down inside and dammit it really hurts!

  #4  
12-07-2011, 02:44 PM
difsnr11
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yes there terms say there is a full money back guarentee if I am not completely satisfied with the program. I have a good feeling I won't be satisfied. After reading some reviews from sites not lovesystems affiliated I've come to the conclusion it is not the right course of action for me.







  #5  
12-07-2011, 04:25 PM
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Just cancel the payment with your credit card company and tell LS you've changed your mind. If they hassle you further tell them to go fuck themselves.

  #6  
12-07-2011, 04:32 PM
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Bootcamp in the middle of the week on Tuesday/Wednesday?

  #7  
12-07-2011, 04:32 PM
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Go a step further and call up your credit card company state the amount you are expecting to pay and then say please block any payments for that amount. Also state it is for services you have yet to receive.

For added security I would ask them to cancel the card.

If it does go through (which I doubt if you have said on their recorded line, please cancel) ask for a Charge Back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

I was a fool a few months ago paying a huge amount of money to Venusian Arts I found out it was a con (after 130 days (maximum chargeback claim period) (read my link below)







  #8  
12-07-2011, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
Just cancel the payment with your credit card company and tell LS you've changed your mind.
This...
very simple

  #9  
12-07-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
This...
very simple
You left out the "Tell them to go fuck themselves" part. That's my favourite

  #10  
12-07-2011, 06:14 PM
difsnr11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
Just cancel the payment with your credit card company and tell LS you've changed your mind. If they hassle you further tell them to go fuck themselves.
The payment has shown on my visa. If I cancel it do they have grounds to pursue legal action? I will definitely tell them to fuck themselves for all of ya'll if this works!







  #11  
12-07-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by difsnr11 View Post
The payment has shown on my visa. If I cancel it do they have grounds to pursue legal action? I will definitely tell them to fuck themselves for all of ya'll if this works!
No, tell them to go fuck themselves. There's a mandatory cooling off period in most countries where you can change your mind and get a full refund.

Also, the credit card companies have cooling off periods. I think Visa's is 10 days for stuff like that. Call them and tell them you were misled, and realize now it's a scam. All true. You're not going to walk away from a bootcamp with beautiful women. No way, no how.

Looks like the FTC has a 3 day rule. That's law. So get your refund now, and don't delay.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...cts/pro03.shtm

  #12  
12-07-2011, 07:33 PM
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What HLB said

Call them immediately and get them to reverse it.

  #13  
12-07-2011, 08:09 PM
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difsnr11:

I took an LS bootcamp as well. Trust me, it's not worth the money, and you are making the right decision to get a refund.

Even with their policy, they have to give it because you haven't violated their terms. They have a lot of BS terms, but not pre-bootcamp. Plus, there is no "change your mind and we can sue" law in the US. Maybe there's one in North Korea or something like that, but not here, not in England, and not in any free country I know of.

Here's what you do: Before calling them, write up an email saying you want a refund and keep the "To:" address line blank. When you call, tell the salesperson that answers that you recently bought a bootcamp seat and need to send him/her an email immediately. Don't initially hint at or mention the refund at all. Ask for his/her email address.

Once he/she gives you his/her email address, put it in the "To:" address block and hit send. Have them confirm they received and opened it over the phone. Once they have, request your refund verbally. Then, try your damnedest to get them to agree to refund the money via email (or, if you can, record the phone conversation). They should tell you when the refunded money will hit your account. Again, try to get this via email. Immediately after you hang up, call your bank. Tell them when the money should be there and forward the emails you sent and received. Instruct them that, if the money doesn't hit your account 24 hours after LS said it would, that you would like them to conduct a chargeback to recoup the funds. Again, get this interaction in email if you can as well (and/or get the name and time of the bank representative you talk to...they put notes of the conversation on your account).

Now this won't be easy...they will ask you a bunch of questions, try to resell you on the bootcamp (a.k.a. tell you dumb shit like there won't be another bootcamp close to you for a long time, the price will go up soon, try to throw in some extras, tell you a surprise is coming, etc.)...anything and everything they can under the Sun do to get you to not request the refund, but don't listen to it. Just call, send the email, request the refund, and be firm.

If on the off chance they try to stiff you (i don't think they're this stupid, but who knows), get screenshots of their advertised 100% money back guarantee policy prior to making the call.

__________________
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  #14  
12-07-2011, 08:41 PM
strollinforlawlz
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I agree with Tryhard's post above. Do your damnest to get your refund. Even if their "terms & conditions" are full of shit, there wasn't any services exchanged and the deposit was there for only a few hours so vacancy wouldn't be an issue.


Quote:
3. For live programs (for example, but without limitation, seminars, workshops, bootcamps, individualized training, personal shopping) refund requests must be made in person on the final day of the program. Your money back guarantee will be voided if you did not attend every scheduled program activity in its entirety, if you did not participate in all program exercises, or if you did not earlier communicate to a Love Systems representative the circumstances of your dissatisfaction and provide an opportunity to cure.

9. You understand and agree that all deposits and payments for "live programs" (including, but not limited to, seminars, workshops, and bootcamps) are non-refundable. You understand and agree that this applies even if you cancel in advance, ask to move to another program, or do not attend the program in question. You understand and agree that the circumstances described in the previous sentence are examples, and do not in any way limit the applicability of the first sentence in this paragraph.

http://www.lovesystems.com/terms-and-conditions


  #15  
12-07-2011, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strollinforlawlz View Post
I agree with Tryhard's post above. Do your damnest to get your refund. Even if their "terms & conditions" are full of shit, there wasn't any services exchanged and the deposit was there for only a few hours so vacancy wouldn't be an issue.
I call bullshit on the terms you posted, though (not you, just the terms...thanks for posting them). If this case hit small claims court, they'd lose in a heartbeat. They haven't provided any services. You can't just keep money and not provide services because you say so on your website. Keeping a deposit that accounts for a full third of the total product price, then trying to justify it as a non-refundable deposit to a judge, isn't gonna fly. Maybe a couple hundred would, but not close to a thousand dollars. A small claims judge would award the customer the money in a heartbeat. He'd be a out a couple hundred (in which LS would still have to prove damages...unlikely they can do it at all, much less a thousand in damages), but at least he fought and got what he deserves. Small claims court is cheap. No lawyers involved.

Just because it's on your website doesn't mean the customer is necessarily agreeing to anything. There are too many situations in which their terms don't hold up that any reasonable person on a judge's bench would tell LS to fuck off...

He could say that a friend took his card and information and charged it without his knowledge and, after speaking with his friend, he has decided not to press charges against him. He doesn't initially have to say why he's asking for the refund. He doesn't have to prove it happened...if someone pressed him for information, he could just say his friend is afraid of legal action and chooses to remain unnamed. The only place it would be fleshed out is in court, which LS would avoid at all costs anyway because (as I said above) they can't justify keeping that much money to any judge. If it comes to that, just have a friend stick up for you. Might be underhanded and embarrassing, but the ends justify the means in my opinion.

Plus, if he does what I say to begin with, he can just go to the bootcamp and go through the motions like they want and get his refund anyway. If LS knows up front that the guy is going to ask for his money back after the bootcamp, they won't be dumb enough to leave the seat taken. All he has to say is "Give me the full amount or I take up a seat and get it back at the end of bootcamp. You can give me free training and waste a seat, and be guaranteed to lose money in the process, or you can give me the full amount back and try to resell the seat. The choice is yours. Either way, I will get my money back."

If they don't want to play fair with it, then play hard ball back. They're not that dumb. They'll buckle.

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  #16  
12-07-2011, 09:57 PM
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Trust me Lovesystems bootcamps are not worth the money. You are better taking that money. Just a bad deal and I wish I had never taken one. One of the worst weekends of my life.

A pure financial waste.

__________________
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  #17  
12-08-2011, 01:06 AM
difsnr11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
No, tell them to go fuck themselves. There's a mandatory cooling off period in most countries where you can change your mind and get a full refund.

Also, the credit card companies have cooling off periods. I think Visa's is 10 days for stuff like that. Call them and tell them you were misled, and realize now it's a scam. All true. You're not going to walk away from a bootcamp with beautiful women. No way, no how.

Looks like the FTC has a 3 day rule. That's law. So get your refund now, and don't delay.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...cts/pro03.shtm
It says it doesn't apply to sales made entirely by phone.
I wish I knew more about the law... I am really afraid of the reprucussions of simply cancelling the sale. What if they sue?

  #18  
12-08-2011, 01:15 AM
difsnr11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strollinforlawlz View Post
I agree with Tryhard's post above. Do your damnest to get your refund. Even if their "terms & conditions" are full of shit, there wasn't any services exchanged and the deposit was there for only a few hours so vacancy wouldn't be an issue.
The guy who sold me the boot camp did not at all refer me to the Terms and conditions. Is there a law against that I can use against them? I know nothing about the law but I am used to seeing a terms and conditions check box in everything. I assume it must be mandatory for service providers to acknowledge and refer customers to these terms before selling a product. Correct? God I hope so, this may be my way out without having to attend the stupid thing.

  #19  
12-08-2011, 01:16 AM
strollinforlawlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by difsnr11 View Post
The guy who sold me the boot camp did not at all refer me to the Terms and conditions. Is there a law against that I can use against them? I know nothing about the law but I am used to seeing a terms and conditions check box in everything. I assume it must be mandatory for service providers to acknowledge and refer customers to these terms before selling a product. Correct? God I hope so, this may be my way out without having to attend the stupid thing.
Actually there's another one:

Quote:
4. In the case of valid refund requests, Love Systems Corporation will provide a full reimbursement of amounts paid, less shipping costs (if applicable).

http://www.lovesystems.com/terms-and-conditions
Maybe it's just a straightforward refund issue. No need to freak out. (Yet.)







  #20  
12-08-2011, 01:20 AM
difsnr11
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If there's a way to sticky this thread I think it deserves it. People need to know what their options are once they've made this mistake of signing up.

  #21  
12-08-2011, 01:41 AM
difsnr11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strollinforlawlz View Post
I agree with Tryhard's post above. Do your damnest to get your refund. Even if their "terms & conditions" are full of shit, there wasn't any services exchanged and the deposit was there for only a few hours so vacancy wouldn't be an issue.
I did not purchase this product through that website, nor can they argue that I did if they try since I have given them no signature. I was actually exposed to the product through the attractions forum with no reference the actual lovesystems website. The only thing I have given them is my credit card information in which they used to charge me a $1500 deposit. Any thoughts on this?

As I type that end bit I died a little inside.

  #22  
12-08-2011, 02:01 AM
difsnr11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
Go a step further and call up your credit card company state the amount you are expecting to pay and then say please block any payments for that amount. Also state it is for services you have yet to receive.

For added security I would ask them to cancel the card.

If it does go through (which I doubt if you have said on their recorded line, please cancel) ask for a Charge Back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

I was a fool a few months ago paying a huge amount of money to Venusian Arts I found out it was a con (after 130 days (maximum chargeback claim period) (read my link below)
I am afraid of one thing, if I cancel the card I am asking for confrontation and further legal action. If I tell them I am getting a refund regardless and will be attending the boot camp, I might get harassed into leaving early and thus not satisfying the terms. If you were in my shoes what would you do? Play by the rules, get money back, or fight them early on and see how it goes. BTW I have taken screen shots of there 100% money back guarantee so I have that on my side to dispute.







  #23  
12-08-2011, 02:26 AM
GentlemanJack
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Just read the T&C on the website:

You understand and agree to the following money back guarantee policy:

For live programs (for example, but without limitation, seminars, workshops, bootcamps, individualized training, personal shopping) refund requests must be made in person on the final day of the program. Your money back guarantee will be voided if you did not attend every scheduled program activity in its entirety, if you did not participate in all program exercises, or if you did not earlier communicate to a Love Systems representative the circumstances of your dissatisfaction and provide an opportunity to cure.

In the case of valid refund requests, Love Systems Corporation will provide a full reimbursement of amounts paid, less shipping costs (if applicable).


This is a valid refund request, call them and tell them you want a refund. Delaying means you lose money, that's what they want...

Or to put it another way, that's the way the terrorists win.

  #24  
12-08-2011, 02:34 AM
difsnr11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GentlemanJack View Post
Just read the T&C on the website:

You understand and agree to the following money back guarantee policy:

For live programs (for example, but without limitation, seminars, workshops, bootcamps, individualized training, personal shopping) refund requests must be made in person on the final day of the program. Your money back guarantee will be voided if you did not attend every scheduled program activity in its entirety, if you did not participate in all program exercises, or if you did not earlier communicate to a Love Systems representative the circumstances of your dissatisfaction and provide an opportunity to cure.

In the case of valid refund requests, Love Systems Corporation will provide a full reimbursement of amounts paid, less shipping costs (if applicable).


This is a valid refund request, call them and tell them you want a refund. Delaying means you lose money, that's what they want...

Or to put it another way, that's the way the terrorists win.

What exactly do they mean by "valid refund request". I'm not sure if I can win simply by saying I suffer from decision remorse.

  #25  
12-08-2011, 03:16 AM
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Apparently you haven't taken the bootcamp yet so nothing has went down yet. Try asking for the refund first. You can give an excuse saying something came up. If it doesn't work then chargeback. Stop worrying about their terms, they are meant to intimidate people into not backing out. If it's extremely unreasonable (i.e. like car valet companies saying they are not liable if they crash your car) it will not be upheld in a court of law.

Everyone here will help you out with the process so just try it and report back.







  #26  
12-08-2011, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by difsnr11 View Post
I am afraid of one thing, if I cancel the card I am asking for confrontation and further legal action. If I tell them I am getting a refund regardless and will be attending the boot camp, I might get harassed into leaving early and thus not satisfying the terms. If you were in my shoes what would you do? Play by the rules, get money back, or fight them early on and see how it goes. BTW I have taken screen shots of there 100% money back guarantee so I have that on my side to dispute.
Stop being a fucking pussy. This is a simple procedure that millions of people do every year with credit card purchases. You don't want the product. You've learned more about it and you realize it's not what you want. You haven't used it yet, so now you want your money back before you use it. You have every right to get your money back for something you haven't even used yet.

If you do face legal confrontation post it here so we can all have a good laugh. Otherwise, it's totally invalid. the law is on your side.

  #27  
12-08-2011, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
Stop being a fucking pussy. This is a simple procedure that millions of people do every year with credit card purchases. You don't want the product. You've learned more about it and you realize it's not what you want. You haven't used it yet, so now you want your money back before you use it. You have every right to get your money back for something you haven't even used yet.

the law is on your side.
Listen dude

They have no grounds what so ever to sue you or take any court action. All you have to do is contact your card company and ask for a chargeback. You are we'll within your consumer rights to do so. Also ask LS to refund your money seeing as at this point you have made the transfer.

At this point you need to do two things in this order.

1. Call lovesystems and ask for a refund.

2. More important call your card company and ask for a chargeback. When they ask for a reason. It's because you haven't taken up a service you have yet to consume & you no longer wish to purchase. You have also asked for a refund from the vendor.

Point 2 is more critical if as you say you paid through a coach and not directly through their website this will get you your money back.

I'm looking forward to hearing what your card company says after you request the chargeback.

Regards,
Chris

  #28  
12-08-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
Stop being a fucking pussy. This is a simple procedure that millions of people do every year with credit card purchases. You don't want the product. You've learned more about it and you realize it's not what you want. You haven't used it yet, so now you want your money back before you use it. You have every right to get your money back for something you haven't even used yet.

If you do face legal confrontation post it here so we can all have a good laugh. Otherwise, it's totally invalid. the law is on your side.
+1. Stop being a pussy and get your money back, already. You'll thank us later.

__________________
Owned: LS miaddict 1, 2; DJ Fuji






  #29  
12-08-2011, 11:32 AM
difsnr11
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Posts: 37


Okay so I just contacted my credit card company and they require me to contact love systems and request a formal refund from them first with an e-mail and everything. I will be contacting love systems in 30 minutes when this Jeremy guy starts work. ohhh boy

  #30  
12-08-2011, 12:42 PM
difsnr11
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So I ended up talking to Nick himself and he did verbally agree to a full refund and made it sound like it was no problem at all. Then he hung up. The scumbag is not making this easy.

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