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I just signed up for a bootcamp - please help!!! Thread Tools Search Thread
  #31  
03-30-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolai View Post
I swear,

prior to finding this site, I thought pua was like the facking holy grail or everything, because that's what the community's marketing makes you believe.
"oh if only you get this thing with women fixed, you'll feel more like a man, it'll transfer over to other areas, business, leadership etc"
You're right. Even guys who pay for bootcamps are often aware of scammers in the community, but they haven't let go of the notion that it's ALL a scam.

It's like knowing that there are a lot of fraudulent psychics out there, but because you believe psychic ability is possible you're just looking for the psychic you think is the most trustworthy. That's why people who know there are scammers out there still get caught out.

They think they've just found the most trustworthy guy. Once they've put the money down, they have to believe in it, otherwise the cognitive dissonance will drive them crazy.







  #32  
03-31-2012, 01:01 AM
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Good job Nikolai.

  #33  
03-31-2012, 10:59 AM
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You put enough pressure on them and they will crack. You could have always have taken it...saved the emails because they said if you wernt satisfied you could get a full refund. Then you could have said you would not be satisfied unless you see the instructors pick up women that you pick out in the crowd. Since they are supposedly gurus they should have no problem picking up any of the chicks that you point out. They know that this would not happen and give you a refund anyways.

  #34  
03-31-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolai View Post
Thanks for the reply, but i can't file the complaint since I'm in Canada and the workshop was supposed to be in Toronto, Canada.
I bet they do their workshop with a tourist visa and don't pay any canadian taxes







  #35  
03-31-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryhards View Post
.

Also, start documenting everything now to be safe. Don't end up like Simplyfly.
I documented everything.

Nikolai please have a read of this thread and follow the advice given in there, if you haven't already http://puahate.com/showthread.php?p=1284295 This is a thread about a guy in a similar position as you who signed up to Lovesystems.

DO NOT LET THEM TRAP YOU INTO ANOTHER PRODUCT THAT IS A MARKETING TECHNIQUE THESE CON MEN USE.

If you haven't already please read the situation I was in below.

These PUA's are con men and will take everything you have and leave you with nothing given the chance.

Demand they refund you in a polite but determined and focused manner.

I look forward to hearing about your refund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PUA 9000 View Post
start the process Immediately and if you have to try to find your stolen/lost credit card you used to pay for it and make sure you order a replacement.

regardless ask for refund and report your lost stolen credit card to avoid any further fraud from these PUA companies.
If your card company hasn't noticed the payment as of yet as you state above PUA9000's advice is superb. Call your card company and get them to cancel the card which you made the payment from. Say you lost the card and make life easy.

  #36  
03-31-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
I documented everything.
I was my understanding you paid partly in cash so, unless you got a receipt from Discovery, you didn't document everything.

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  #37  
03-31-2012, 07:28 PM
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No reason to respond to this guy anymore. He's gotten plenty of advice. Not to mention this thread reappeared in this sub-forum:

http://puahate.com/showthread.php?t=4803


In fact, I suspect troll.

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  #38  
04-01-2012, 12:18 AM
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They already said that they'd give me my refund. They said it should be within 2 weeks at the most. See the emails that I posted, they're titled by parts.

I'll keep everyone updated on whether or not I get it back.

Tryhard, how the hell am I a troll? I PMed you and asked you nicely, if you don't want to give me advice, that's fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
I documented everything.

Nikolai please have a read of this thread and follow the advice given in there, if you haven't already http://puahate.com/showthread.php?p=1284295 This is a thread about a guy in a similar position as you who signed up to Lovesystems.

DO NOT LET THEM TRAP YOU INTO ANOTHER PRODUCT THAT IS A MARKETING TECHNIQUE THESE CON MEN USE.

If you haven't already please read the situation I was in below.

These PUA's are con men and will take everything you have and leave you with nothing given the chance.

Demand they refund you in a polite but determined and focused manner.

I look forward to hearing about your refund.



If your card company hasn't noticed the payment as of yet as you state above PUA9000's advice is superb. Call your card company and get them to cancel the card which you made the payment from. Say you lost the card and make life easy.


  #39  
04-01-2012, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryhards View Post
I was my understanding you paid partly in cash so, unless you got a receipt from Discovery, you didn't document everything.
You're right and wrong:

I got the following receipts.





But I handed over £500 in cash to him in Camden, London in the above picture and $1,000 to him in Vegas. I hope he paid income tax on both of them and paid some of it back to his creditors.

Give him a call on his UK number to discuss this with him if you want further confirmation.

Look at his bullshit line "so I can get the sales guys to stop pushing" the man is so full of shit.

  #40  
04-01-2012, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
You're right and wrong:

I got the following receipts.





But I handed over £500 in cash to him in Camden, London in the above picture and $1,000 to him in Vegas. I hope he paid income tax on both of them and paid some of it back to his creditors.

Give him a call on his UK number to discuss this with him if you want further confirmation.

Look at his bullshit line "so I can get the sales guys to stop pushing" the man is so full of shit.
The word "everything" is a big qualifier. It's like the word "pregnant". Either you are 100% pregnant or 100% not.

Same with the documentation. Either I'm right and you documented everything or you didn't.

And I'm not giving the dude a call lol. That's a waste of minutes on my phone.

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  #41  
04-01-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryhards View Post
The word "everything" is a big qualifier. It's like the word "pregnant". Either you are 100% pregnant or 100% not.

Same with the documentation. Either I'm right and you documented everything or you didn't.
I think the pregnancy reference is completly non sequitur. I documented everything. You want to see the cash withdrawals I made on my bank statement? It references the £750 I paid in cash to him in Camden "£750 due on arrival". I'm pretty sure if I look around I can find a reference to the $1,000 I handed to him in Vegas.

Look those invoices have Discovey's details all over them. I'm 100% sure he hasn't paid any income tax on them. As well as that the £250 payment to his Synergy company was illegal at this point as it was bankrupt.

  #42  
04-01-2012, 08:37 AM
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The pregnancy statement is not a non-sequitur. It is an analogy.

What Tryhards is asking is: "Do you have a receipt for the cash payment you made in Vegas?"

Did they give you a receipt in Vegas and did you keep it?

When people make cash payments on the spot, they are given receipts. (You should always ask for a receipt when a lot of money is changing hands. Hindsight is 20/20 blah blah, whatever.)

The thing is this: A record of a cash withdrawal from your bank doesn't prove you handed VA the money. You could have spent that money on anything between the time you withdrew it and presumably handed it to VA. The receipt proves what you spent the money on.

I believe you. I'm sure everyone here believes you. But a belief is not the same as proving your story. It doesn't sound like you have proof to substantiate your story. If you do, great, but I'm not sure what it gets you at this point.

Whether or not Discovery paid taxes has nothing to do with whether or not you kept a receipt.

If you start speculating like that and questioning his character, it opens the door to people speculating about you and questioning your character. It's a slippery slope. I don't think you want these sleazy guys doing that.

You've made some very obvious and avoidable mistakes and you've made a lot of public statements about yourself and them.

If they start attacking you personally it seems like it would make you feel terrible, much more so than your attacks on Discovery hurt him. That's just my sense.

I read here you're still logging into the VA forum? WTF?

It sucks this happened to you. But just let it go and move on.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
I think the pregnancy reference is completly non sequitur. I documented everything. You want to see the cash withdrawals I made on my bank statement? It references the £750 I paid in cash to him in Camden "£750 due on arrival". I'm pretty sure if I look around I can find a reference to the $1,000 I handed to him in Vegas.

Look those invoices have Discovey's details all over them. I'm 100% sure he hasn't paid any income tax on them. As well as that the £250 payment to his Synergy company was illegal at this point as it was bankrupt.


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  #43  
04-01-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
I think the pregnancy reference is completly non sequitur.
Lol I think you need to look up the phrase "non sequitor", bro.

As a matter of logic, a non sequitor is meant to describe something that "does not follow" (hence the meaning in Latin). For instance:

-Joe is taller than Jill.
-Joe and Sue are twins.
-Therefore, Sue is taller than Jill.

"Sue is taller than Jill" is a non sequitor because we don't know that Joe and Sue are identical twins. In fact, since one is (presumably) a boy and the other a girl, it's just as likely they are fraternal twins and not identical twins. Therefore, it does not follow that Sue is necessarily taller than Jill.

There is no logical progression being implied with my last comment. I'm using an analogy. Two similar, but mutually exclusive, instances.

I'm not trying to "follow" anything. Analogies aren't meant to follow each other. Analogies are meant to compare two things. I'm comparing.

And the analogy is logically sound. Either you documented everything, including getting a receipt for the cash payments, or you didn't.

"Everything" is a qualifying word that implies 100% of something just as "pregnant" is a qualifying word that means you are 100% with child. You can't be "kind of pregnant".

It's an analogy (and a sound one), not a progression. Anyway...

Quote:
I documented everything. You want to see the cash withdrawals I made on my bank statement?
No, because it's irrelevant. A bank withdrawal is not proof you gave him cash. A bank withdrawal is proof you (or someone else) withdrew money from your account.

A receipt is proof you gave him cash (just like any other business operation in the civilized world). If he wrote you a receipt for the cash, then you're good to go.

Quote:
It references the £750 I paid in cash to him in Camden "£750 due on arrival".
No, it references an amount to be paid (i.e. "due"), not an amount that has been paid. Very different. Getting a bill in the mail isn't proof that you paid it, and what you received is no different than a bill. It tells you the amount you owe and when you owe it.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure if I look around I can find a reference to the $1,000 I handed to him in Vegas.
If it isn't a receipt, it doesn't count. See previously stated point.

Quote:
Look those invoices have Discovey's details all over them. I'm 100% sure he hasn't paid any income tax on them. As well as that the £250 payment to his Synergy company was illegal at this point as it was bankrupt.
So? Your electricity bill has all your details on it, but it doesn't mean you paid it. You've still provided no documentary proof of an exchange of cash between you and Discovery (by the way, I'm not saying the exchange didn't happen - I know it did - I'm just saying you didn't document it).

And paying money to a bankrupt company is not illegal per se. Just because a company goes belly up doesn't mean its A/R balances are no longer outstanding. It just means that any reconciliation of its A/R balance should, in turn, first go to the company's creditors, not to the company's officers (which I agree with you on - Discovery shouldn't have pocketed any money...it legally should've went to his creditors). But that doesn't mean the company's officers should stop collecting A/R payments. They have a fiduciary duty to (but they also have a fiduciary duty to pay taxes and, if in bankruptcy, turn the profits over to creditors).

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  #44  
04-01-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryhards View Post
And paying money to a bankrupt company is not illegal per se.
In England it is under the Insolvency Act, because at the moment of bankruptcy you no longer own the company or its assets. It's owned by the Crown, basically a fancy term for Her Maj and her people. Discovery broke the law when he did that..

  #45  
04-01-2012, 11:39 AM
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Yes and 99.9% of drug users drank milk as children. So I guess that means that they're drug users because they drank milk.

Pregnancy has nothing to do with this.

I couldn't be asked with reading let alone responding to the rest of what you wrote.

  #46  
04-01-2012, 12:06 PM
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Your response is indicative of how you got yourself into this mess.

You do not know how to process information, and you did not rely on the free or low-cost resources available to you in UK.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
Yes and 99.9% of drug users drank milk as children. So I guess that means that they're drug users because they drank milk.

Pregnancy has nothing to do with this.

I couldn't be asked with reading let alone responding to the rest of what you wrote.


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  #47  
04-01-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
In England it is under the Insolvency Act, because at the moment of bankruptcy you no longer own the company or its assets. It's owned by the Crown, basically a fancy term for Her Maj and her people. Discovery broke the law when he did that..
The bankruptcy is between Discovery and the Crown.

Simplyfly's paying Discovery was not illegal.

Whether Discovery broke the law and is a bankrupt bad man has nothing to do with whether Simplyfly has a receipt.

This is worse than talking to children.

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Look at her avatar. Notice the stick she pawns us with...........................Psychoo
  #48  
04-01-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twothreeoh View Post
Simplyfly's paying Discovery was not illegal.
Okay, thanks for that. Nobody asked.

Discovery trading under a dissolved company, and taking Simplyfly's money was.

  #49  
04-01-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twothreeoh View Post
The bankruptcy is between Discovery and the Crown.
Did you read the section where the official receiver thanks me for proving proof and receipts of Discovery's income? As it led to Discovery making payments of £6-7,000 per month?

Why does the insolvency service ask the general public for this:

"Examples of useful information would be if you have information previously unknown to the Official Receiver, which identifies undisclosed assets or debts, or about behaviour on the part of the bankrupt which contributed significantly to the cause of the bankruptcy.

What type of misconduct is relevant?

Examples of the type of behaviour which may result in further action being taken are:-

• non-disclosure/removal of assets;

• dishonesty in obtaining credit;

• failure to keep or produce records which account for loss during the 2 years prior to the bankruptcy petition.

• disposal of assets at less than their value resulting in a loss to creditors;

• payment of some creditors in preference to others;

• excessive pension contributions;

• failure to supply goods or services wholly or partly paid for, resulting in a loss to creditors;

• incurring debts (as an individual or a trader) which they had no reasonable prospect of paying;

• gambling, rash and hazardous speculation or unreasonable extravagance which has materially contributed to or increased the extent of the bankruptcy debts or which took place between presentation of the petition and the date of the bankruptcy order;

• neglect of business affairs of a kind which may have materially contributed to or increased the extent of the bankruptcy;

• fraud or fraudulent breach of trust;

• failure to co-operate with the Official Receiver or the trustee;

If further action is warranted, the court when considering the bankrupt’s actions will take into account any previous bankruptcy where the individual has been undischarged within 6 years of making this bankruptcy order.

Please note that this list is not exhaustive. If you know of any misconduct on the part of the bankrupt which you think may have contributed significantly to his/her bankruptcy, please put this in writing to the Official Receiver (together with copies of any supporting documentation you have). "

Quote:
Originally Posted by twothreeoh View Post
Whether Discovery broke the law and is a bankrupt bad man has nothing to do with whether Simplyfly has a receipt.
Yes that's correct for once. Who gives a shit about me having a receipt, I certianly don't.

This thread was about this poor guy wanting a refund after he discovered PUA is a con. Please could we stick to the matter at hand. I regret commenting on this guys post now if anyone posts a thread about how do I get a refund. I will do it under a new alias account.








  #50  
04-01-2012, 01:02 PM
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That's great.

There is no connection between his bankruptcy and your refund.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
Did you read the section where the official receiver thanks me for proving proof and receipts of Discovery's income? As it led to Discovery making payments of £6-7,000 per month?

Why does the insolvency service ask the general public for this:

"Examples of useful information would be if you have information previously unknown to the Official Receiver, which identifies undisclosed assets or debts, or about behaviour on the part of the bankrupt which contributed significantly to the cause of the bankruptcy.

What type of misconduct is relevant?

Examples of the type of behaviour which may result in further action being taken are:-

• non-disclosure/removal of assets;

• dishonesty in obtaining credit;

• failure to keep or produce records which account for loss during the 2 years prior to the bankruptcy petition.

• disposal of assets at less than their value resulting in a loss to creditors;

• payment of some creditors in preference to others;

• excessive pension contributions;

• failure to supply goods or services wholly or partly paid for, resulting in a loss to creditors;

• incurring debts (as an individual or a trader) which they had no reasonable prospect of paying;

• gambling, rash and hazardous speculation or unreasonable extravagance which has materially contributed to or increased the extent of the bankruptcy debts or which took place between presentation of the petition and the date of the bankruptcy order;

• neglect of business affairs of a kind which may have materially contributed to or increased the extent of the bankruptcy;

• fraud or fraudulent breach of trust;

• failure to co-operate with the Official Receiver or the trustee;

If further action is warranted, the court when considering the bankrupt’s actions will take into account any previous bankruptcy where the individual has been undischarged within 6 years of making this bankruptcy order.

Please note that this list is not exhaustive. If you know of any misconduct on the part of the bankrupt which you think may have contributed significantly to his/her bankruptcy, please put this in writing to the Official Receiver (together with copies of any supporting documentation you have). "



Yes that's correct for once. Who gives a shit about me having a receipt, I certianly don't.

This thread was about this poor guy wanting a refund after he discovered PUA is a con. Please could we stick to the matter at hand. I regret commenting on this guys post now if anyone posts a thread about how do I get a refund. I will do it under a new alias account.


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Look at her avatar. Notice the stick she pawns us with...........................Psychoo
  #51  
04-01-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twothreeoh View Post
That's great.

There is no connection between his bankruptcy and your refund.
Oh good.

I have you on the retreat; you've gone from "it's between him and the crown" to "no connection between his bankruptcy and your refund."

I wholeheartedly concur that there is no connection between his bankruptcy and my refund.

Can we please leave it there? Or do this over PM.

  #52  
04-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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Look, his bankruptcy is between him and the Crown. If you feel like you've done a valuable public service by ratting him out, good on you. I don't believe you did but it's your time and you can do with it what you want.

It seems like the satisfaction of turning him in made up for some of the loss you felt from the ordeal with VA. That's great.



Please don't pm me about this. I promised you I wouldn't troll you simply because you wished me a happy fake birthday and it was cute. I'm not trolling you now.

I posted in this thread to point out the flaw in your thinking about analogies and receipts.

If you don't get that basic stuff, you might not be the best person to explain to another guy how to get a refund.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
Oh good.

I have you on the retreat; you've gone from "it's between him and the crown" to "no connection between his bankruptcy and your refund."

I wholeheartedly concur that there is no connection between his bankruptcy and my refund.

Can we please leave it there? Or do this over PM.


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Look at her avatar. Notice the stick she pawns us with...........................Psychoo






  #53  
04-01-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
In England it is under the Insolvency Act, because at the moment of bankruptcy you no longer own the company or its assets. It's owned by the Crown, basically a fancy term for Her Maj and her people. Discovery broke the law when he did that..
Thanks for clearing that up, but that begs the question - Who has the fiduciary duty to collect A/R? It can be owned by someone and collected by someone else....or can it not?

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  #54  
04-01-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
I couldn't be asked with reading let alone responding to the rest of what you wrote.
Lol...the way to tell if someone realized their wrong = this comment.

"Oh, I'm too busy to argue about something I'm obviously butthurt about!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyfly View Post
Yes and 99.9% of drug users drank milk as children. So I guess that means that they're drug users because they drank milk.

Pregnancy has nothing to do with this.
I have a two questions for you Simplyfly -

1) Does "99.9%" qualify as "everything"?

2) Where did I say pregnancy had anything to do with your situation? (I only made a - correct - analogy.)



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  #55  
04-01-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLittleBoy View Post
Okay, thanks for that. Nobody asked.

Discovery trading under a dissolved company, and taking Simplyfly's money was.
Nobody asked, yet you're confused after all this time and effort.

Paying and receiving are two separate acts.

Perhaps Discovery's taking money is illegal, but his act of taking money is separate from Simplyfly's act of giving (paying) Discovery money.

The latter is what Tryhards asked about.

You conflated the two.

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  #56  
04-01-2012, 11:57 PM
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Someone told me
God is love
love is blind
Ray Charles is God



The fact that Discovery scams and simplyfly has the balls to make it public in order for other guys not fall into the trap of paying any of these PUA Gurus who scam and go bankrupt to legallly avoid refund makes me upset why you mock and try to make fun of him by being disrespectful.
Your attempts on "Trying" to dominate people when you should be looking at yourself,seriously.

I actually admire him for coming forward and participating on posts such as this one where this nikolai guy paid Adam and Simplyfly is sharing his opinion based on what he went through.

please stop being insecure and judgemental. As Nicholaus mentioned if you dont have anything possitively productive and revelavant, then respect other peoples boundaries.

you are a woman, if you want to be treated with respect learn to respect others....its a good start towards a positive change in your Life.



Quote:
Originally Posted by twothreeoh View Post
Nobody asked, yet you're confused after all this time and effort.


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  #57  
04-02-2012, 08:05 AM
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I'm not mocking him-- or if I'm mocking him, you should take umbrage to the the guy who posted insulting gifs in response to Simplyfly.

Nikolai got good advice in this thread. It came from you. Call the credit card company and put a stop on the payment. That's what you do after you talk to a company and they won't give you a refund.

Simplyfly and HappyLittleBoy are giving bad advice.

Contacting the FTC won't get you a refund. Reading a long thread about a different situation when a person paid cash to different company will not get Nikolai his money back.

Doing those things will confuse him more.

For advice threads to be useful, people need to post relevant, correct information.

No doubt Simplyfly and Happylittleboy have good intentions, but Simplyfly's experience has no bearing on this situation.

Pointing that out is not controlling, or dominating or trolling.

The fewer emotional posts when talking about money, the better. That includes yours.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PUA 9000 View Post
Someone told me
God is love
love is blind
Ray Charles is God



The fact that Discovery scams and simplyfly has the balls to make it public in order for other guys not fall into the trap of paying any of these PUA Gurus who scam and go bankrupt to legallly avoid refund makes me upset why you mock and try to make fun of him by being disrespectful.
Your attempts on "Trying" to dominate people when you should be looking at yourself,seriously.

I actually admire him for coming forward and participating on posts such as this one where this nikolai guy paid Adam and Simplyfly is sharing his opinion based on what he went through.

please stop being insecure and judgemental. As Nicholaus mentioned if you dont have anything possitively productive and revelavant, then respect other peoples boundaries.

you are a woman, if you want to be treated with respect learn to respect others....its a good start towards a positive change in your Life.


__________________
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Look at her avatar. Notice the stick she pawns us with...........................Psychoo
  #58  
04-02-2012, 08:19 AM
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230 is legit. Check out her new e-book: Online Stalking for Mentally Ill Shut-ins. It's amazing. She gives you awesome tips to weird people out and make them think you're retarded. Your post count will soar, broheim!







  #59  
04-02-2012, 09:12 AM
nikolai
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 30


When I did call my credit card company like a day after signing up for the bootcamp, they told me that they see a pending payment.
I tried to get them to cancel it, but they said that they cannot do it once it goes through and goes into pending mode. The payment has to go through first and then it can be disputed.
And when I did try them to dispute it, they said they cannot do anything about it if the merchant said it's non-refundable, and they referred me to the better business borough.

Luckily I never signed the e-document that they sent me after signing up for the bootcamp, so without my signature, the contract does not exist and they have to refund me.

I wonder if I would have actually gotten my refund had I signed that e-document.

  #60  
04-02-2012, 09:44 AM
twothreeoh's Avatar
twothreeoh
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 11,011


I'm glad it end up ok for you.

The Better Business Bureau is a good resource if you're in the US, but not all consumer advocates agree about that.

Your state's Attorney' General's office is a good place to report scammy businesses. It is probably the best because they will take action. They will take action because they are elected officials and want to appear to be serving the public.

On the internet, this website has good advice:
http://consumerist.com/

Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolai View Post
When I did call my credit card company like a day after signing up for the bootcamp, they told me that they see a pending payment.
I tried to get them to cancel it, but they said that they cannot do it once it goes through and goes into pending mode. The payment has to go through first and then it can be disputed.
And when I did try them to dispute it, they said they cannot do anything about it if the merchant said it's non-refundable, and they referred me to the better business borough.

Luckily I never signed the e-document that they sent me after signing up for the bootcamp, so without my signature, the contract does not exist and they have to refund me.

I wonder if I would have actually gotten my refund had I signed that e-document.


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