Anyone read/seen anything and thought "isn't this obvious"

[FakePeopleSuck]

I'm asking about anything (books, blogs posts, etc.) where you read it and thought "this is so obvious, you would have to be an emotionally and socially stunted moron to not get this." Well, I'm that emotionally and socially stunted moron.

I've actually heard girls say 'poor guy' after I talked to them or even just looking at me from a distance where they probably thought I couldn't hear them (I have excellent hearing).

Also, please don't recommend anything like ridiculous tophats, negging people or that cocky and funny stuff that only a small minority of people can pull off without looking like an asshole, I can't.

I'm talking more about things like, very indirectly, implying sex with a girl while flirting while never outright saying it; or giving a certain amount of controlled neglect so she doesn't get her fill if you and is left wanting for more of your attention. I've heard both of these from people who have the real-world results to give them credibility unlike most 'gurus.' Anything on being able to successfully pull this off instead of looking like a creep or driving a woman away would also be appreciated.

Also, don't try to throw affiliate links to me trying to sell me anything. I'm either going to download it for free or buy it used off amazon.

Please, send me the lessons for morons that you've found because I'm a moron socially and with girls.

[Honesty]

Sadly pretty much everyone lies to you. PUAs, women, tv shows, movies, relationship books, feminists, your mom, self help books...

What exactly do you want to know about?

[FakePeopleSuck]

Is there anything that is honest? Even blog posts? I can't tell what's real and what's BS.

How about being able to socialize with people and be respected instead of becoming the runt of the group? Just talking to women without being considered a creep, not even trying to have sex with them?

[Honesty]

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

Is there anything that is honest? Even blog posts? I can't tell what's real and what's BS.

How about being able to socialize with people and be respected instead of becoming the runt of the group? Just talking to women without being considered a creep, not even trying to have sex with them?

The real/honest stuff will probably APPEAR bitter, politically incorrect, offensive, etc. I would suggest listening to Tom Leykis (lots of his episodes are on youtube) to kind of show you the other side to how you've been programmed. However he is kind of extreme and has a lot of hyperbole. But it did help shake me out of my conditioning.

From my experience if you're the runt of the group it's because you've let people walk over you in small ways which build up to them treating you like crap. You have to learn to have boundaries and not let people cross them

It's like when kids get a new teacher, they will test them to see how far they can go before the teacher punishes them.

The other thing is working out and getting bigger. If you're muscular people won't automatically put you into the wimp category. Are you skinny or overweight?



Which one of those pics do you think would get automatically treated like a runt?

"Just talking to women without being considered a creep, not even trying to have sex with them?"

If you're good looking you can say almost anything and not be considered a creep. I'm guessing you're not. But I don't know what you're doing either...

[FakePeopleSuck]

From my experience if you're the runt of the group it's because you've let people walk over you in small ways which build up to them treating you like crap. You have to learn to have boundaries and not let people cross them

I've tried that multiple times and people stop talking to me because they say I'm being a prick. Same thing happens with new groups of people, they dismiss me as a prick when I don't let them walk all over me, use me, just take it when I'm not being invited to anything good, etc.

The other thing is working out and getting bigger. If you're muscular people won't automatically put you into the wimp category. Are you skinny or overweight?

I'm actually quite muscular and can very easily maintain a muscular and athletic body type with less than 30 minutes every other day working out and not even really pushing myself. It doesn't help.

If you're good looking you can say almost anything and not be considered a creep. I'm guessing you're not. But I don't know what you're doing either...

I'm also quite attractive physically and when I do try to make a move with girls they'll say I'm really cute, attractive, have a hot body, etc. but they're obviously not attracted to me for other reasons. Then I used to get friendzoned; and more recently I find out that the girl thinks I'm a creep.

Also, How far back should I go with this Tom Leykis guy before he started getting extreme? So I can see his earlier stuff.

[Honesty]

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

I've tried that multiple times and people stop talking to me because they say I'm being a prick. Same thing happens with new groups of people, they dismiss me as a prick when I don't let them walk all over me, use me, just take it when I'm not being invited to anything good, etc.



I'm actually quite muscular and can very easily maintain a muscular and athletic body type with less than 30 minutes every other day working out and not even really pushing myself. It doesn't help.



I'm also quite attractive physically and when I do try to make a move with girls they'll say I'm really cute, attractive, have a hot body, etc. but they're obviously not attracted to me for other reasons. Then I used to get friendzoned; and more recently I find out that the girl thinks I'm a creep.

Also, How far back should I go with this Tom Leykis guy before he started getting extreme? So I can see his earlier stuff.

Well I've got no fucking idea then, sorry! You might be going too far when you stop people from crossing boundaries. But without seeing you, I don't know. Maybe you're an actual aspergers person (from what youve said about having no idea about what's obvious, it could be the case)?

It's not "extreme" per se. He just kind of trolls people to get reactions. Like I said, use it to "deprogram" yourself and see things from a different point of view to the one you've been programmed with. The most valuable parts are actually when people call in to disagree with him, but he uses logic to make them agree. Especially with women.

[FakePeopleSuck]

One thing is that I'm short at 5ft 8.5in tall or 1.74 meters tall.

I was actually tested for Asperger's syndrome and came out negative. The most telling sign was when I was given a sheet with an actor expressed 30 different emotions and I had discern what they were. I got 28 right which is much higher than average.

[Sephiroth]

pua has this horrible tendency of falling between obvious and ridiculous

obvious --> being dominant, "leading," being suave

ridiculous --> NLP, speed seduction, "neg" theory, etc

[Barry Kirkey]

I'm fucking freaking out here. I gotta calm down!

[Threat]

Seek professional help.

Self-help, PUA or love potions won't do you any good.

[FakePeopleSuck]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

pua has this horrible tendency of falling between obvious and ridiculous

obvious --> being dominant, "leading," being suave

ridiculous --> NLP, speed seduction, "neg" theory, etc

To get an idea of how bad I was I couldn't tell the two groups apart except for NLP. I thought they were breaking down how to do what most people do without even thinking about it when talking about things like speed seduction or negging.

You have any idea how to pull off being dominant and leading without looking pushy and overbearing and being ignored; or how to pull off being suave without looking fake? People keep saying it but help on how to actually pull it off is quite lacking.

Originally Posted by Threat

Seek professional help.

Self-help, PUA or love potions won't do you any good.

These "professionals" have no idea how to do anything. I've been to plenty of shrinks and have nothing to show for it but having spent a lot of my parents' money, then my money. I also don't have the money to pay for them anymore and don't qualify for any kind of assistance. I need real help that can actually work.

Can anyone post anything here about making friends, getting girls, being successful at things, or just living a general good life? Something that they read where they thought something like "Wow that was obvious, are they going to explain how 2+2=4 next?" Something that they know it actually works in the real world.

[trepert]

This might be just for you, although I onlyskip through this site, though it seems legit. It is 100% non profit and made by a guy who claimed he wasn't normal and became normal and gives advice on beeing normal only

http://www.succeedsocially.com/

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by trepert

This might be just for you, although I onlyskip through this site, though it seems legit. It is 100% non profit and made by a guy who claimed he wasn't normal and became normal and gives advice on beeing normal only

http://www.succeedsocially.com/

Yeah, I read that site. IMO, the advice that guy gives is about as good as social skills advice can get. In other words, it's not really mind blowingly awesome, but it's still better than like 99% of PUA advice out there. Social skills and dating skills are like fitness: you can really only give so much good advice before the whole principle of "well, either you have the discipline to do it or you don't" starts to kick in. Pickup artists charge money by pretending to have answers to the self-discipline problem. The guy who writes that site admits that you can only go as far as your desire will take you. That puts him in a league above PUAs right off the bat, because the delusional "inner game" advice is where the PUAs really start being reckless with their students' minds & risk causing psychological problems.

[Threat]

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

These "professionals" have no idea how to do anything. I've been to plenty of shrinks and have nothing to show for it but having spent a lot of my parents' money, then my money. I also don't have the money to pay for them anymore and don't qualify for any kind of assistance. I need real help that can actually work.

Can anyone post anything here about making friends, getting girls, being successful at things, or just living a general good life? Something that they read where they thought something like "Wow that was obvious, are they going to explain how 2+2=4 next?" Something that they know it actually works in the real world.

Go out and socialize.

[FakePeopleSuck]

Originally Posted by Threat

Go out and socialize.

Didn't work out for me the last 20 or so times I tried it. After meeting people my texts wouldn't be responded to and if I walked up to them in person I would get the "oh shit not him again" look on their faces.

Are you trying to be an asshole?

Originally Posted by trepert

This might be just for you, although I onlyskip through this site, though it seems legit. It is 100% non profit and made by a guy who claimed he wasn't normal and became normal and gives advice on beeing normal only

http://www.succeedsocially.com/

Thanks, so far this is looking good and hopefully will have answers I'm looking for.

[Threat]

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

Didn't work out for me the last 20 or so times I tried it. After meeting people my texts wouldn't be responded to and if I walked up to them in person I would get the "oh shit not him again" look on their faces.

Don't take this the wrong way but do you have aspergers?

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

Are you trying to be an asshole?

No, I'm not.

[ElCoral]

Originally Posted by Threat

Seek professional help.

+1

[Peter Wurfel]

Originally Posted by Threat

Go out and socialize.

This is useless advice and you know it.

[PUA]

And you have the Aspergers and you know it.

[ooloboolo]

do a bootcamp

[FakePeopleSuck]

Originally Posted by Peter Wurfel

This is useless advice and you know it.

That's like asking a rich businessman how to get rich yourself and he says "start a business that makes money." The next question is how to do it.

Originally Posted by Threat

Don't take this the wrong way but do you have aspergers?

Originally Posted by PUA

And you have the Aspergers and you know it.

No, I mentioned earlier that I got tested for it and it turned up negative. There wasn't enough in my results for a legitimate diagnosis of Aspergers.

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

Thanks, so far this is looking good and hopefully will have answers I'm looking for.

Please, don't stop because of one good thing. There must still be plenty of good sources of help out there.

Anything more on making friends, getting girls or even being ultra-charismatic or dominating at work and getting tons of promotions and bonuses?

[Shiny]

FakePeopleSuck,

I have experience being the social reject, for years I was horribly shy and would seldom speak. When I would speak, I would often come across as a jerk when I thought I was being funny or completely make the situation awkward. I know that I cannot possibly understand what that experience has been like for you but I can definitely relate.

For me, the journey took many years. I conquered my shyness gradually to the point where it was mostly gone through high school. I'm now the most outgoing person I know, to the point where I just now started working on getting myself to shut up and listen to people more. Unfortunately, attracting women proved a bigger challenge and I struggled with mastery of that well into my mid-20's.

Next month I will turn 28, I am now happily married, and have a thriving social life. I love my wife and feel no desire to pursue someone else. However, I know if something unfortunate happened and I found myself on the market, I would have no difficulty finding a quality individual and attracting her. (The wife approved this statement) I also realize I may have an issue with pride.

All of this proves nothing, and many words can amount to nothing. I am not a PUA, and I've never considered myself one, though I have learned from some of the "best" (Subjective term). One of the most lambasted "gurus" on this site has complimented me more than once on my energy and the way I interact.

Before today, I didn't even know this forum existed, I only found it because I was looking up one of my "guru" friends I haven't talked to in over a year and found a video of him posted on the forums for mocking. I'm not going to name drop, if you want names I can provide them, but that isn't the point.

Reading your post resonated with me. I am sending you my email address via pm. If you would like some direction on a specific topic I would be happy to put some thought into a response and if you find my response helpful we can continue this conversation.

And lastly, to your question:
"You have any idea how to pull off being dominant and leading without looking pushy and overbearing and being ignored; or how to pull off being suave without looking fake? People keep saying it but help on how to actually pull it off is quite lacking."


I would have to get to know you a bit better before answering this one, but if I had to guess based on the little I know of you, I would say two things:

First, my biggest problem with owning space and leading was that I didn't smile. This made me come across as a jerk rather than being in charge. Practice smiling at people, it's ok if it doesn't come naturally. Practice it anywhere there are people (not just girls), if nowhere else, the mall is a great place. Once this comes naturally, you will be headed in the right direction as congruency is key.

Second, I would forward you to the book Impro, by Keith Johnstone, it is not a pickup guide. In fact, Johnstone is primarily a theater instructor. I've had the opportunity to spend time with him and he's an interesting man who sees good in everyone. Focus on the parts about ownership of space and spontaneity. He talks a lot about what most people do naturally and how to emulate it for theater, but for me it pointed out some nuances of communication and body language to which I was oblivious. This book started me on a journey to seeing the world differently. It might help you, it might not. There are other books and sources I would recommend but I fear I'm already bordering information overload.

I will continue to think on this subject some more over the next few days. But hopefully, for now, something I've said was helpful to you.

Shiny

[Peter Wurfel]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I am so awesome I went from loser to hero... I have no proof for that... But you can do it too because I could... Go out and socialize and read books about impro. You will be totally outgoing and have a wife... Just continue

Rephrased the post.

Me: And I am changing every single thing I can think of and still don't get laid.

Shiny:But it is so easy

Me: Yeah right, post a pic of your wife and you and we'll see how to judge that. Most people here are sexless due to standards in looks. You are outgoing huh? What a useless information.

[PUA]

Originally Posted by Peter Wurfel

Me: And I am changing every single thing I can think of and still don't get laid.

How does that make you feel, Asperger boy?

[Threat]

Sorry I was trolling.

Torrent blueprint, and watch it like 20 times.

[Threat]

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

That's like asking a rich businessman how to get rich yourself and he says "start a business that makes money." The next question is how to do it.

I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who read a book and became socially competent. That's why I think you have aspergers.

[MrShit]

Originally Posted by Threat

Sorry I was trolling.

Torrent blueprint, and watch it like 20 times.

+1

Once a week for the first year if you want a deep identity level change

[Peter Wurfel]

Originally Posted by PUA

How does that make you feel, Asperger boy?

You quote the wrong guy, my friend.

[FakePeopleSuck]

Originally Posted by Threat

I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who read a book and became socially competent. That's why I think you have aspergers.

Originally Posted by PUA

And you have the Aspergers and you know it.

Originally Posted by FakePeopleSuck

I was actually tested for Asperger's syndrome and came out negative. The most telling sign was when I was given a sheet with an actor expressed 30 different emotions and I had discern what they were. I got 28 right which is much higher than average.

Well, I suppose you're perfectly qualified to challenge a Doctor's diagnosis Dr. Threat and Dr. PUA. However I suspect the reality is that you're just as qualified to do things like inspect a building, fix a damaged jet engine or do knee surgery. What do you say to that Dr. Threat and Dr. PUA?

What you don't understand is how much of socially competent behavior has to be taught. You wouldn't understand unless you've had to take care of a kid for an extended period of time. My parents never bothered to explain what was right and only yelled at me or hit me when I did something that was really bad without any explanation. Try learning to thrive being raised entirely under those conditions; then I can take your judgment seriously.

Obviously with my cluelessness about what to do led the other kids to not want to be around me and the gap only grew from there as the years went on.

I was actually sent to special ed classes when I was 12, after getting in a fight with a bully and breaking his left orbital bone, but got out in a semester. That's because they were geared towards people who actually did have disorders like Aspergers and I was far above the level of what they taught. I only knew enough to mostly keep out of trouble with teachers and other kids but not near enough to thrive.

The same holds true for professionals. They are geared towards people with disorders like Aspergers and aren't geared to teach me what I need to know to thrive. I can't go to them anyway because I live in the U.S. and don't have the money to pay them.

A big problem is that the standards are higher because no one has to keep you around for anything, unlike public schools. You can even be fired from a job due to social anxiety and awkwardness because "you're disruptive to the team." I was actually fired from a job for that reason despite outperforming almost everyone else at the actual work.

I'm asking for a book or blog or other source because that's all that's available to me. After all who is going to teach a man in his early 20's this stuff like they would to a kid; explaining everything to me one piece at a time and making sure I got it. The answer is no one. That's why I'm looking for things like books or websites.

I did try just going out and acting social hoping I would learn. What a disaster that was, especially trying to get girls. If I don't make some good progress on this within a few months I'm probably going to hang myself.

Even the guy who gave me his email will probably only answer about 5-10 emails. I have to be very careful to get the most out of the emails I send him by choosing what I say very carefully and communicating it very clearly so he will respond to all of it with good information.

Please keep the good information coming. I really do appreciate good information like the website from trepert.

[Peter Wurfel]

FakePeopleSuck, you won't make it. Kill yourself and don't write here again.